[BlueOnyx:16165] Re: Scientific Linux 7.0 released

[Ernie]

Hi Mike,
I can appreciate the problems with systemd, I have only skimmed the
documents and watched some youtube tutorials, and it seems like an extreme
departure from init. I already get lost with launchd on the Mac, yet another
process #1 system to learn.

The thing that gets me is there seems to be no transition period, every
hosting control panel suddenly has to have a complete rewrite on process
control. I have seen on the debian Wiki they have a package for systemd 
which creates the old init.d/ scripts structure to maintain some compatibility, 
perhaps there is something like that for E7?


- Ernie.
 



> Hi Ernie and Gerald,
> 
> > Scientific Linux 7.0 has been released, they took a fair while this time
> > compared to CentOS.
> 
> Thanks for the update on this.
> 
> After wrapping up the transformation of PKGs for the new GUI I've
> started looking into BlueOnyx 5209R for EL7 (CentOS 7 & SL 7) again.
> 
> However: I'm not sure if or when it will be ready.
> 
> It's certainly nothing to hold your breath for.
> 
> I still have to overcome some fundamental platform changes. For example
> some of our C++ code in CCED needs an overhaul to make it compile with
> the GCC compiler that's included on EL7. That is mostly done by now,
> minus some uncritical compile warnings.
> 
> The PHP modules i18n and CCE that we need for the GUI need to be adapted
> for PHP-5.4 (and later), too. However, the API for PHP modules has
> changed between PHP-5.3 and PHP-5.4. I went through the module code to
> clean them up and got them to compile, but it's not yet working as
> intended. Need to do some more digging there and maybe need some help
> from someone who knows a lot more about C than I do.
> 
> Lastly: Anyone who's also reading the kernel mailing-list is probably
> aware of the heavy in fighting that's currently going on between the
> supporters of Systemd and those that heavily oppose it. This has been
> cooking for some time and turned into a bloody war between heavily
> entrenched supporters on each side.
> 
> See http://www.vitavonni.de/blog/201401/2014012201-the-init-wars.html
> for a short run down.
> 
> EL7 sadly shipped with Systemd instead of the usual SysV init. The
> change to Systemd is such a pain in the ass that I've even contemplated
> to *not* base the next BlueOnyx on EL7. I didn't reach a decision on
> that yet, though.
> 
> I'm strongly opposed to having a multi-process and multi-libraried
> process with the PID #1 that also thinks it must be a jack of all
> trades. SystemD soon gets its own Terminal service *and* NTP server.
> Imagine that. It is bloody ridiculous. Next they'll probably let it have
> its own webserver, build in Skype and once it gained self-awareness they
> give it it's own seat in the UN security council.
> 
> The net result is this:
> 
> [root at 5209r ]# ls -hals /usr/lib/systemd/systemd
> 1.2M -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1.2M Jul 30 09:22 /usr/lib/systemd/systemd
> 
> [root at 5208r ]# ls -hals /sbin/init
> 152K -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 147K 25. Jun 2013  /sbin/init
> 
> If you try to make the master-process a "jack of all trades" you end up
> with a bloated blob of 1.2 megabytes. Instead of a lean and mean
> /sbin/init that's just 147 kilobytes and *just* does what you expect it
> to do.
> 
> Security wise Systemd turns into a nightmare as these heaps and piles of
> extra-code (beyond starting and stopping processes) contains a lot of
> "baggage" that constantly needs to be audited.
> 
> This *will* bite us in the ass sooner or later.
> 
> But we'll take that road when we get to that crossing. At the moment the
> main priority for 5209R is not the choice of OS, but getting i18n and
> the CCE PHP modules ready for PHP-5.4 and newer. Then I'll look at
> Systemd again and if I can overcome my heavy resentment about it there
> might be a 5209R on CentOS7 and SL7. Or something entirely different.
> 
> -- 
> With best regards
> 
> Michael Stauber
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