<html dir="ltr"><head></head><body style="text-align:left; direction:ltr;"><div>Hi Michael,</div><div><br></div><div>You're right that the early (MIPS) products from Cobalt didn't have SSL,</div><div>actually the Qube3 and Ra3Q3 didn't have it from the beginning as well.</div><div><br></div><div>Export restrictions on RSA was still enforced by the US Gov. at the time.</div><div>Cobalt had a package for SSL which they sold separately, it wasn'ẗ integrated into the GUI and didn't give</div><div>the user an encrypted admin GUI either. It could be set up for site usage only.</div><div><br></div><div>I created packages for SSL for Q2/R2 as well as Q3/R3 during this period, Being in Europe helped a lot as we</div><div>didn't have the restrictions. My package added GUI-pages for virtual-sites to administer SSL as well as adding a secured GUI environment.</div><div>I also got Cobalt to write info for users doing package upgrades which contained Apache to not install the official package but my revised</div><div>packages as it would break the GUI otherwise.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Rickard</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Fri, 2020-09-11 at 02:05 -0500, Michael Stauber wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre>Hi Ernie,</pre><pre><br></pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre>eg. normal http is port 80, so http admin was port 81</pre><pre> normal https is port 443 so hrrps admin was port 444.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>I am not sure when that was changed the other way around, it was several</pre><pre>years ago that's for certain. I prefered the original cobalt ports.</pre></blockquote><pre><br></pre><pre>Nice catch. But as for</pre><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/cobaltfacts@list.cobaltfacts.com/msg03281.html"><pre>https://www.mail-archive.com/cobaltfacts@list.cobaltfacts.com/msg03281.html</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre>... that's from 2005 and doesn't mention anything with the Sausalito</pre><pre>GUI, but was a specifically catered response for a RaQ 1/2/3 related</pre><pre>question. And by *now* I'm sure that the info there wasn't correct to</pre><pre>begin with. For the RaQ3 that answer is definitely wrong.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>I just downloaded the Qube2 and Qube3 OS restore CD and took a look. I</pre><pre>also found a mirror of my old data.smd.net where I had all the Cobalt</pre><pre>related stuff hosted. I lost that data 10 years ago in a hard disk</pre><pre>crash, but I'm thankful to Arthur and Franklin for making that mirror,</pre><pre>so that I can get it back now.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Let us dive a bit into the early days: Recall that the Qube's were</pre><pre>billed as workgroup servers? They couldn't do multiple Vsites. So they</pre><pre>only had one (primary) Vsite. It also seems like the Qube 2 (at least as</pre><pre>far as the ISO from 1997 goes) couldn't do SSL - at all.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>So as far as the Qube and Qube 2 go you had port 80 for reaching the</pre><pre>primary webpage. IF there was one. If there wasn't, then that would lead</pre><pre>to a landing page that redirected to </pre><a href="http://<IP|hostname>:81"><pre>http://<IP|hostname>:81</pre></a><pre>, where you</pre><pre>found the GUI via HTTP.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>I then checked the RPM repository of the RaQ2 and although it *does*</pre><pre>have OpenSSL-0.9.5a, neither Apache nor the AdmServ have any HTTPS</pre><pre>provisions. At all.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>See: </pre><a href="http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raq2/RPMS/"><pre>http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raq2/RPMS/</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>So RaQ, RaQ 2, Qube, Qube 2: No SSL Apache, no SSL GUI.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>This seems to be supported by the screenshot from a PDF manual, which</pre><pre>shows a page of the RaQ 2 GUI with the URL bar *not* cropped out of the</pre><pre>picture.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>And there it says: </pre><a href="http://bert.cobaltnet.com:81/sysManage/index.html"><pre>http://bert.cobaltnet.com:81/sysManage/index.html</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>So HTTP and port 81.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>I couldn't find any OS restore CDs for the RaQ3 or RaQ4. So again let's</pre><pre>go and check the mirrored RPMs instead:</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Qube2 Apache and AdmServ configs:</pre><a href="http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/qube2/eng/RPMS/apache-conf-q2-1.0-13.noarch.rpm"><pre>http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/qube2/eng/RPMS/apache-conf-q2-1.0-13.noarch.rpm</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre>--/etc/admserv/httpd.conf----------</pre><pre>Port 81</pre><pre>-----------------------------------</pre><pre>No SSL provisions.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>RaQ2 Apache and AdmServ configs:</pre><a href="http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raq2/RPMS/apache-conf-raq2-1.0-17.noarch.rpm"><pre>http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raq2/RPMS/apache-conf-raq2-1.0-17.noarch.rpm</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre>--/etc/admserv/httpd.conf----------</pre><pre>Port 81</pre><pre>-----------------------------------</pre><pre>No SSL provisions.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>RaQ3 Apache and AdmServ configs:</pre><a href="http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raq3/RPMS/apache-conf-pacifica-14.noarch.rpm"><pre>http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raq3/RPMS/apache-conf-pacifica-14.noarch.rpm</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre>--/etc/admserv/httpd.conf----------</pre><pre>Listen 81</pre><pre>Listen 444</pre><pre>[...]</pre><pre><VirtualHost _default_:444></pre><pre>SSLEngine off</pre><pre></VirtualHost></pre><pre>-----------------------------------</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>RaQ4 Apache and AdmServ configs:</pre><a href="http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raq4/RPMS/apache-conf-shinkansen-4.noarch.rpm"><pre>http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raq4/RPMS/apache-conf-shinkansen-4.noarch.rpm</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre>--/etc/admserv/httpd.conf----------</pre><pre>Listen 81</pre><pre>Listen 444</pre><pre>[...]</pre><pre><VirtualHost _default_:444></pre><pre>SSLEngine off</pre><pre></VirtualHost></pre><pre>-----------------------------------</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>RaQ XTR Apache and AdmServ configs:</pre><a href="http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raqxtr/eng/RPMS/apache-conf-monterey-23.noarch.rpm"><pre>http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raqxtr/eng/RPMS/apache-conf-monterey-23.noarch.rpm</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre>--/etc/admserv/httpd.conf----------</pre><pre>Listen 81</pre><pre>Listen 444</pre><pre>[...]</pre><pre><VirtualHost _default_:444></pre><pre>SSLEngine off</pre><pre></VirtualHost></pre><pre>-----------------------------------</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Qube 3 Apache and AdmServ configs:</pre><a href="http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/qube3/OS-6.4/RPMS/apache-conf-carmel-8.noarch.rpm"><pre>http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/qube3/OS-6.4/RPMS/apache-conf-carmel-8.noarch.rpm</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre>--/etc/admserv/httpd.conf----------</pre><pre>Listen 81</pre><pre>Listen 444</pre><pre>[...]</pre><pre><VirtualHost _default_:444></pre><pre>SSLEngine off</pre><pre></VirtualHost></pre><pre>-----------------------------------</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>RaQ550 Apache and Admserv configs:</pre><a href="http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raq550/RPMS/apache-conf-ptlobos-15.noarch.rpm"><pre>http://data.blueonyx.biz/ftp.cobalt.com/products/raq550/RPMS/apache-conf-ptlobos-15.noarch.rpm</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre>--/etc/admserv/httpd.conf----------</pre><pre>Listen 81</pre><pre>Listen 444</pre><pre>[...]</pre><pre><VirtualHost _default_:444></pre><pre>SSLEngine off</pre><pre></VirtualHost></pre><pre>-----------------------------------</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>From that we can deduct that starting with the Qube 3 and RaQ 3 the GUI</pre><pre>used port 81 for HTTPS and port 444 for HTTP.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Older models such as Qube, Qube 2, RaQ and RaQ 2 did NOT have SSL and</pre><pre>used port 80 for Apache and 81 for the HTTP-GUI.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Now let us look at the "WHY". Why no HTTPS and why the port switcheroo</pre><pre>between HTTP-81 to HTTPS-81:</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>It sounds like ancient history, but once upon a time the US had export</pre><pre>restrictions on cryptography. Everyone dealt differently with that.</pre><pre>Microsoft invented pseudo-crypto like ROT13. And anyone else with more</pre><pre>than two functioning brain cells just didn't export cryptography unless</pre><pre>they were legally in the clear. Shipping OpenSSL was apparently OK, but</pre><pre>anything that built on top of that in a certain way (such as mod_ssl or</pre><pre>the predecessor Apache-OpenSSL) wasn't.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Eventually the export restrictions got relaxed, though. My memory is a</pre><pre>bit faint about the exact year when that happened. 1998 or 1999 seems</pre><pre>likely. 1998 is about the time the RaQ2 development was still ongoing.</pre><pre>They might have started w/o crypto built in and it was too late to do so</pre><pre>now w/o rocking the boat too much. Also they might not yet have known</pre><pre>which side of the fence the ball would eventually drop.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>So the RaQ2 remained w/o crypto, but the RaQ3 got it from the start. The</pre><pre>RaQ3 "apache-openssl" RPM has its first entry in the RPM's changelog in</pre><pre>August of 1999.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>That re-affirms the following:</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>SSL only got added out of the box when the RaQ3 came out.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Qube, Qube 2, RaQ, RaQ2: Apache HTTP port 80 and no HTTPS on port 443.</pre><pre>The GUI (in HTTP-only-mode) was running on port 81.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>RaQ3, RaQ4, XTR, RaQ550, Qube3 ControlStation: HTTP-GUI on port 444,</pre><pre>HTTPS-GUI at port 81.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Why did they switch port 81 from HTTP to HTTPS? We can only guess. But</pre><pre>my assumption is: Due to the Qube's history as workgroup server (and</pre><pre>absence of SSL) they used port 81 HTTP for the GUI initially. When they</pre><pre>were able to internationally ship with the crypto stuff pre-installed,</pre><pre>they needed another port and bumped security up a notch by making 81</pre><pre>HTTPS and defaulting the HTTP GUI to 444 instead.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>All in all that certainly was not an entirely logical or intuitive</pre><pre>choice. But in a way it's relatable.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>Blueonyx mailing list</pre><a href="mailto:Blueonyx@mail.blueonyx.it"><pre>Blueonyx@mail.blueonyx.it</pre></a><pre><br></pre><a href="http://mail.blueonyx.it/mailman/listinfo/blueonyx"><pre>http://mail.blueonyx.it/mailman/listinfo/blueonyx</pre></a><pre><br></pre></blockquote><div><span><pre>-- <br></pre><div>Bluapp AB</div><div>Rickard Osser</div><div>CTO</div><div>Solberga Ängsväg 3</div><div>125 44 Älvsjö</div><div>Sweden</div><div><br></div><div>Web: <a href="http://www.bluapp.com">http://www.bluapp.com</a></div><div>Mail: <a href="mailto:rickard.osser@bluapp.com">rickard.osser@bluapp.com</a></div></span></div></body></html>